Electric cars

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chaggle
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Electric cars

Post by chaggle » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:12 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ?CMP=fb_gu

This is something that many people who see electric cars as one part of the solution to greenhouse gas production haven't considered...
The number of plug-in cars and vans could reach 9m by 2030, up from around 90,000 today, said the company, which runs the UK’s national transmission networks for electricity and gas.

The impact of charging so many cars’ batteries would be to reverse the trend in recent years of falling electricity demand, driven by energy efficiency measures such as better refrigerators and LED lighting.
Basically the increase in power needed to charge these batteries - at the most conservative estimate - is more than the total output from the new Hinkley Point power station.

There is no way that solar, wind, tide, wave and the like can meet even the present need let alone this huge increased demand.

The solutions proposed include the building of further new nuclear facilities and the replacement of dwindling North Sea gas with onshore fracked gas production (North Sea gas has actually involved fracking since the 1960s).

I think the well-meaning people who oppose nuclear, fracking and everything else that isn't 'natural' :roll: are going to have to get real and start thinking a bit...
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

Tony.Williams
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Tony.Williams » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:53 am

I see the main benefit of electric vehicles in reducing the excessive level of air pollution which afflicts our cities. Obviously, making the cars and generating the electricity for them will create pollution of various kinds, but mostly away from the densely-populated areas.

Also, the demand for electricity varies enormously according to the time of day, as well as the time of year. I found the chart below (a projection for 2030, but it shows the pattern).

Image

So, we revert to cheap off-peak power and expensive peak power, to encourage electric car users to recharge their vehicles during periods of low demand, e.g. at night and at weekends (battery capacities for electric cars are increasing dramatically). I have also read a suggestion that if an electric car is not being used during peak power demand, its battery can be used to supplement domestic power, effectively shifting more of the demand to off-peak periods.

And of course, most domestic power demands are for space heating in winter. Better insulation, as well as lower-energy appliances, should gradually reduce that demand.

It's important when considering such complex issues to consider the whole picture, not just concentrate on one bit of it in isolation.

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Ashley.S.
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Ashley.S. » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:28 pm

I think electric cars will most likely be the future. There is however two issues:

1.) where is all the power going to be generated from to charge these cars?
2.) they don't seem to last very long, so how far could you go before another charge is required?
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chaggle
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Re: Electric cars

Post by chaggle » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:11 am

Ashley.S. wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:28 pm
I think electric cars will most likely be the future. There is however two issues:

1.) where is all the power going to be generated from to charge these cars?
2.) they don't seem to last very long, so how far could you go before another charge is required?
...to which I would add, how long do they take to charge?

I don't think it's like a 5 minute stop at a petrol station. So not only do you have to stop more frequently but you have to wait while it happens.

ETA http://www.thechargingpoint.com/knowled ... rging.html

Looks like about 1/2 hour. :ey
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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chaggle
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Re: Electric cars

Post by chaggle » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:27 am

I see the UK is to ban hydrocarbon fuelled cars and vans from 2040.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

Tony.Williams
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Tony.Williams » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:08 pm

Ashley.S. wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:28 pm
2.) they don't seem to last very long, so how far could you go before another charge is required?
The range of electric cars used to be about 100 miles, but you can now get some small, popular ones reaching over 200 miles and the top-of-the-range models exceeding 300 miles. Each generation sees a substantial increase.

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Re: Electric cars

Post by Matt » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:04 pm

They're going to need to put up a lot of kerbside charging stations. We rarely get to park anywhere near our house and quite often on the other side of the road. There's a couple of places in town where electric cars can charge up for free. I wonder if that will carry on being the case once they need to roll out more of them. If not how they will charge for a charge.

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Re: Electric cars

Post by Tony.Williams » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:35 pm

Matt wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:04 pm
If not how they will charge for a charge.
Like everything else in the near future, you'll wave your smartphone at the machine and will have the cost of whatever you use deducted from your account.

Perhaps I should get a smartphone, sometime - or not... :?

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Re: Electric cars

Post by Tony.Williams » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:28 am

Matt wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:04 pm
They're going to need to put up a lot of kerbside charging stations. We rarely get to park anywhere near our house and quite often on the other side of the road. There's a couple of places in town where electric cars can charge up for free.
It is unfortunate that the places where using electric cars makes most sense - densely populated urban areas - are the ones where residents are likely to find it most difficult to park within their grounds so they can use their domestic power supply to recharge them.

By the way, I see that Cambridge Econometrics have produced a report saying that switching to all-electric cars would only put up the power demand by less than 10% by 2050, which should not put a strain on the grid even at peak times.

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chaggle
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Re: Electric cars

Post by chaggle » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:20 pm

https://www.camecon.com/news/2040vehicleban/

Looks less of a problem than some fear.

I think we are going to have to change our expectations somewhat - at least when driving distances. Commuting and school/shopping runs (the vast majority of journeys) shouldn't be too much of a problem (provided you can charge up overnight. I forget that some (lots of) people aren't in the position of being able to park off-road by their house).

We are used to just pulling into a service station, filling up and going on our way in a few minutes. The only way that will happen is using replacement batteries which I've seen mooted. I can't see fast charging being practical. 1/2 hour charging uses anything up to 50kW chargers - imagine how much draw would be needed to reduce that to a few minutes.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

JonDonnis
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Re: Electric cars

Post by JonDonnis » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:03 am

Instead of pumping trillions of pounds into electric cars, these companies should be pumping that money into air scrubbers that clean the air, and then let people drive what they want.

Matt
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Matt » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:11 am

It's not either/or
There's already plenty of investment in Carbon Capture and storage. However in our free market, the invisible hand has directed that money to be more promising if it can deployed at a centralised power production facility rather than expecting portable units to be cost effectively installed in cars any time soon.

I can just imagine you in your electric car 20 years from now, running a diesel generator in the boot so that you can charge it up as you go. ;-)

JonDonnis
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Re: Electric cars

Post by JonDonnis » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:29 am

Matt wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:11 am
It's not either/or
There's already plenty of investment in Carbon Capture and storage. However in our free market, the invisible hand has directed that money to be more promising if it can deployed at a centralised power production facility rather than expecting portable units to be cost effectively installed in cars any time soon.

I can just imagine you in your electric car 20 years from now, running a diesel generator in the boot so that you can charge it up as you go. ;-)
Sadly I am an annoying Vegan, love the earth type of bastard, so I will be fannying about on a bicycle.
I do have a car in the UK, I do less than 2000 miles a year, little super economical C1. Literally only used for emergencies and shopping.

When I am living in Greece, I walk everywhere, and if further I will use a bicycle. Greeks think I am mad always walking, I then point out my 6 pack abs, and then point at their fat gut.

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chaggle
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Re: Electric cars

Post by chaggle » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:17 pm

How do you get to Greece and back?
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Ketchup
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Ketchup » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:18 pm

I wonder how we would cope if we had this situation here in the UK:

:eek:
'Driverless buses are now on the streets of the Estonian capital Tallinn - there have been "no major incidents" but a number of near misses'.
A pair of vehicles are operating on a route through the city as part of the Baltic state's presidency of the European Union, and have so far managed not to collide with any other road users
Source: (BBC News) LINK
~ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday ~

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