Brexit consequences

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bindeweede
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:21 pm

Image

I'm no expert, but were the top three areas not major areas voting Leave?

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:30 pm

And then there is a very new item from Sky News. New Brexit leak reveals steep costs for UK industries

https://news.sky.com/story/new-brexit-l ... s-11240583

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:27 am

bindeweede wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:21 pm

I'm no expert, but were the top three areas not major areas voting Leave?
Probably, although that isn't surprising. The economically poorest areas in the country are the ones most vulnerable to recession; they are also where people are most disillusioned with the country's political/economic situation (their old, heavy industries having been virtually wiped out), so they are inclined to vote against whatever Whitehall wants, on a "sod-you-lot" principle. The fact that they get most help from the EU obviously adds to their vulnerability when we leave, and that makes their actions seem illogical - but Brexit is primarily an emotional decision, not a logical one.

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:29 pm

Things are beginning to warm up: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43001931
EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has warned that a transition period immediately after Brexit in 2019 is "not a given".
He outlined continuing disagreements between the UK and EU over issues like freedom of movement during the period.
He also said the UK's decision to leave the EU single market and customs union meant border checks at the Irish border were "unavoidable".
Not really fair of him to point out the hard, cold truth that has been obvious from the start - the Irish border problem is not going to go away, and merely saying "we're going to solve it" doesn't achieve anything. It is inherently impossible to reconcile leaving the single market and customs union with maintaining an open border across Ireland. The government keeps kicking this can down the road, make vague comments about advanced technology monitoring (they have such an amazing record for complex IT systems, after all) while desperately hoping that something will turn up, but I really can't see a way of fudging this.

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:31 pm

George Soros tells why his love for Britain means he'll fight on to oppose Brexit, from something of a surprising source.
I consider Brexit a tragic mistake.

Prior to Brexit, Britain enjoyed the best of all possible worlds: it was a member of the European Union without adopting the euro.

Allowing a referendum on membership was a fatal error. Experience has shown that referenda often lead to bad decisions. Egged on by unscrupulous agitators, people use them to express their dissatisfaction with the current state of affairs rather than contemplating the consequences. The fact that conditions are unsatisfactory does not mean they can’t get worse. That is what has happened in Britain.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... rexit.html

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:11 am

If you read the comments (I've done so so you don't have to - no need to thank me) you will see why The Mail carried this.

It allows the faithful to splutter with indignation at a rich foreign 'establishment' figure who's only in it for what he can get (I could go on and on about what they think of him) trying to undo the will of the common working man who voted overwhelmingly to leave the corrupt... blah... blah...

I.e. it reinforces leaver sentiment.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:54 am

The referendum issue is an important one, and Soros makes some good points. We are not Switzerland, and our tradition is for parliamentary decision-making rather than referendums - making important decisions is what parliament is supposed to do, the electorate's job is to choose the parliament. Just because something is generally popular (or unpopular) does not mean that it should necessarily override parliament's considered view. The death penalty is a good example of this being accepted.

I think that the country should either uphold parliament and reject referendums, or should establish a high bar for referendum results in the case of major constitutional change: either requiring a majority of all eligible voters (not just those who vote) or requiring some kind of super-majority. Too late for the EU, though...

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:37 am

It was going to be rainbow coloured unicorns and sunny uplands.

It's gone from that to David Davis assuring us that it won't be...
an Anglo-Saxon race to the bottom. With Britain plunged into a Mad Max-style world borrowed from dystopian fiction. These fears about a race to the bottom are based on nothing, not history, not intention, nor interest.”
...so that's OK then.

Is this the very embodiment of the straw-man argument?
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Croydon13013 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:41 am

Has anyone already linked to this doc on this thread?: http://researchbriefings.files.parliame ... P-7212.pdf

Guidance Note to all MPs before the vote on the referendum. Lots of interesting stuff.

Section 5: "This referendum is advisory only. It doesn't bind either Parliament or the Government to act on its outcome."

Section 6: "a supermajority would be required."
thIS sIGnaTure iS an

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:22 pm

Croydon13013 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:41 am
Has anyone already linked to this doc on this thread?: http://researchbriefings.files.parliame ... P-7212.pdf

Guidance Note to all MPs before the vote on the referendum. Lots of interesting stuff.

Section 5: "This referendum is advisory only. It doesn't bind either Parliament or the Government to act on its outcome."

Section 6: "a supermajority would be required."
I was certainly aware of it and it's oft been said that the referendum was only advisory.

But those horses have well and truly bolted.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:16 am

chaggle wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:37 am
These fears about a race to the bottom are based on nothing, not history, not intention, nor interest.
I thought that the origin of this idea (i.e. the UK becoming like Singapore as a low-cost production and trading centre) came from some of the Brexiters?

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:53 pm

Hot news this evening from The Independent.
A key member of the European Parliament’s Brexit team has described the manner in which the UK is conducting the Brexit negotiations as “a shambles” and warned that Michel Barnier is privately expressing his concerns, The Independent can reveal.

Belgian MEP Philippe Lamberts, who sits on the influential cross-party Brexit steering group, said he had never witnessed such “unpreparedness, lack of professionalism and competence” from politicians and that UK negotiators have “no direction” due to a lack of clarity from the government.
Who on earth could believe such stuff?? :fp

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 20446.html

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Croydon13013 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:05 am

chaggle wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:22 pm
I was certainly aware of it and it's oft been said that the referendum was only advisory.

But those horses have well and truly bolted.
I had thought so, but everything is turning around slowly and who knows where we will be in a year's time? I suspect that arguments about the validity of the referendum will rise again.

There isn't going to be a hard brexit. The right-wingers arguing for it are either delusional or dishonest. It's just a question of whether we will have a weak and discredited UK inside the EU or attached awkwardly on the outside.
thIS sIGnaTure iS an

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:56 pm

According to Huffpost, Thornbury has "clarified" Labour's position on The Customs Union.
Thornberry said the only thing that would avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland was joining a customs union.

She added: “Is there any way which we can have frictionless trade with Europe without tariffs, without great lorry parks at Dover, without being in a form of customs unions? Can’t think of anything else. Seriously can’t think of anything else. So of course we will need to be in a form of customs union.”

Asked what kind of a customs union Labour would seek, she said: “So, technically, because we’re leaving the EU, we can’t be in the customs union that we are in now, so we leave and then we have to negotiate a new agreement.

“That, we think, is likely to be a customs union that will look pretty much like the current customs union.”
God, my brain really hurts.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/e ... k-homepage

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:19 pm

Would the UK actually be forced to implement a border between NI and the republic? The EU might have to but do we?

What if we just didn't?
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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