Brexit consequences

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chaggle
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:44 am

I avoid Spoons where possible because of the owner who's a dick-head.

Luckily there isn't one very near so that's quite easy.

Also luckily their pricing seems to be filtering down to other hostelries so making them even less appealing.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

Matt
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Matt » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:37 pm

Croydon13013 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:21 am
Matt wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:34 pm
Were you in Wetherspoons again?
:D I haven't been in a Spoons for some time. Unfortunately I was at work. One colleague is an idiot (the one I was arguing with), another is an all-out UKIPper. Fortunately there are a whole bunch more who are OK.
That's far more worrying. One assumes that strategies are in place the keep the idiot away from decisions of consequence and to tie the kipper to the the consequences of decisions.

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chaggle
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:27 am

Tusk tells it like it is.

If this is the reaction to the truth you can see why Politicians lie so often.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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chaggle
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:29 am

Much of the reaction is that Tusk's comment (and his and Varadkar's mirth) is 'unhelpful' at this 'critical time' in the negotiations.

This is a very one-eyed view.

From the EU view it's a) probably helpful and b) not a critical time.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:36 am

An interestingly varied set of newspaper headlines today, with quite a few not featuring Tusk's remarks: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47152588 In fact, only the "serious" papers plus the Metro mention Brexit on the front page. Perhaps an indication that the majority of people are just getting fed up with the whole subject.

The front page which I found most exasperating was that of the Daily Express on an entirely different subject, concerning the very expensive new drug for treating cystic fibrosis (c. £100,000 per person per year) which the paper is campaigning for the NHS to fund. Such campaigns typically avoid answering questions such as: Where is the money coming from? What should the NHS stop doing in order to afford this? At what point would the campaigners agree that the cost is too high - £1 million? £10 million?

The NHS has a painfully difficult job deciding which of a wide range of expensive new treatments should be funded, and they have worked out a way of comparing cost against added years of life. It sounds cold-blooded, but how else to share out limited resources fairly?

I am reminded of a campaigning slogan which crops up now and then concerning road safety at some spot perceived to be dangerous. The usual cry is "Does someone have to be killed before something is done?" To which the honest answer is: "Yes, actually. There's a point scoring system to determine which are the most dangerous spots, and a death scores highly". I've never heard anyone actually give that answer, though....

Croydon13013
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Croydon13013 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:00 pm

So Tusk wonders "What that special place in hell looks like for those who promoted Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely".

Various Tories, DUP MPs and UKIP MEPs rant and rave about having been insulted; thus identifying themselves as clueless loons who didn't have a plan. I haven't seen one of them claiming to have known what they were doing when they campaigned for Brexit. They are just complaining that he has been rude about them.
thIS sIGnaTure iS an

Croydon13013
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Croydon13013 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:05 pm

Tony.Williams wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:36 am
I am reminded of a campaigning slogan which crops up now and then concerning road safety at some spot perceived to be dangerous. The usual cry is "Does someone have to be killed before something is done?" To which the honest answer is: "Yes, actually. There's a point scoring system to determine which are the most dangerous spots, and a death scores highly". I've never heard anyone actually give that answer, though....
Westminster Council certainly have given that answer. When a large organisation asked for a pedestrian crossing outside their new office block they were told that they couldn't have one until there was at least one fatality. I've no idea if that is unique, common or somewhere between.
thIS sIGnaTure iS an

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chaggle
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:42 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-the-dark
...United Kingdom of Absurdistan for what it is: a land where civil servants send military advisers into government departments, as if the mandarins were planning a coup, or draw up emergency measures to lift the Queen fall-of-Saigon style from Buckingham Palace or stockpile medicines as if we were at war. We are at war in a sense, only Brexit is a war the British have declared on themselves and still do not realise they are fighting.
Worrying article - worth a read.
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:59 pm

Croydon13013 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:00 pm
So Tusk wonders "What that special place in hell looks like for those who promoted Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely".

Various Tories, DUP MPs and UKIP MEPs rant and rave about having been insulted; thus identifying themselves as clueless loons who didn't have a plan. I haven't seen one of them claiming to have known what they were doing when they campaigned for Brexit. They are just complaining that he has been rude about them.
Worth the flak he's collected for the satisfaction of telling it like it is, I imagine. :thumb

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Matt » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:49 pm

I don't see he actually received any flak, all that happened was the people he intended to upset confirmed how butthurt they were.

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chaggle
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:32 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... GTUK_email
The British government is “pretending to negotiate” with the European Union and has not presented any new proposals to break the Brexit deadlock, according to EU officials
.
The British side thinks a crucial process has begun and hopes progress will have been made by 27 February when MPs are expected to have another crunch Brexit vote.

However, on Wednesday night European council president Donald Tusk said the EU27 was still waiting for proposals.
Barnier, has said current talks with the UK do not even qualify as negotiations. In a call on Tuesday morning with Guy Verhofstadt, chief Brexit representative for the European parliament, Barnier said there were “no negotiations” with the British.
“These are courtesy calls at best and we have nothing new to say,” Barnier was reported to have said, by a source familiar with the conversation.

Verhofstadt had asked the EU negotiator for an update, following Barnier’s meeting with Barclay over dinner at the British ambassador’s residence in Brussels, where they dined on North Sea sole, roast duck and British cheese, washed down with sancerre and saint-émilion wines.

“They are pretending to negotiate while they still don’t know what they want and how they want it,” the source said, who described this week’s meetings as “kicking up dust” and a series of “photo opportunities and pictures”. “We are willing to negotiate, but there is nothing on the table from the British side.”
This reinforces my impression that this is not a crucial point in the negotiations but the UK thinks it is.

The EU doesn't give a toss any more.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:28 am

chaggle wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:32 pm

The EU doesn't give a toss any more.
Does anyone except dedicated Brexit nerds still care, I wonder?

Still, I suppose that if the latest craze among female debaters for stripping off on TV catches on, that might lead to a rise in interest... :shock: https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-news-l ... 17892.html

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chaggle
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:29 pm

That's an interesting turn isn't it?

Brexit means Brexit - Out means Out. :thumb:

I wonder what other political ladies might be thinking about utilising this technique.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:23 pm

Another interesting piece from Ian Dunt. Regarding the ERG, he concludes..
But it doesn't matter, because the ERG are not fighting for a reformed deal. They know they won't get it. They are fighting for no-deal. In their insane world, the crippling disaster of this scenario provides some sort of religious breaking point with the multicultural sins of the past. It is politics as spiritual sado-masochism, a nativist rapture based on self-punishment.

They are simply out of their minds, and yet the government - the actual government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - follows them around like a whipped dog, seeking to fulfill their every command. Whether Commons motions do or do not receive a majority is immaterial. All that matters is what the ERG will support.

This is the madness, a toxic political sickness which has infected No.10. And it explains why it could release statements as functionally insane as the one it published last night.
http://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/02/15/ ... -is-saying

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:12 am

If nothing else, this whole sorry saga underlines just how dysfunctional our political system has become. As things stand, I cannot imagine myself being willing to vote for either of the main parties in the next general election, but voting for anyone else is a waste of time in our system. So I expect I won't vote (again). Any bets on a record low turnout?

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