General Election

Tony.Williams
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Re: General Election

Post by Tony.Williams » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:20 am

A thoughtful article by Mark Easton, BBC Home Editor: Has British democracy let its people down?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40245805

Croydon13013
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Re: General Election

Post by Croydon13013 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:20 pm

Tony.Williams wrote: Before the 2015 election, we were prospering nicely with a stable coalition government and a privileged membership of the world's largest trading bloc, with lots of opt-outs to suit ourselves (particularly the Euro).
Prospering?

No Govt has ever borrowed as much and got us so far in debt as the 2010 - 2015 coalition Govt (£700 Billion debt inherited from Blair/Brown, 1.5 Trillion after 5 years, doubled). Education, the NHS, railways, etc, all declined in that period. Massive increase in the homeless, children living in B&Bs, etc. The country was heading down the toilet.

Brexit just makes it worse.
thIS sIGnaTure iS an

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chaggle
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Re: General Election

Post by chaggle » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:47 pm

Croydon13013 wrote: ...
No Govt has ever borrowed as much and got us so far in debt as the 2010 - 2015 coalition Govt (£700 Billion debt inherited from Blair/Brown, 1.5 Trillion after 5 years, doubled). Education, the NHS, railways, etc, all declined in that period. Massive increase in the homeless, children living in B&Bs, etc. The country was heading down the toilet...
...but apart from that. :thumb:
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

Tony.Williams
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Re: General Election

Post by Tony.Williams » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:17 am

Croydon13013 wrote:
Prospering?

No Govt has ever borrowed as much and got us so far in debt as the 2010 - 2015 coalition Govt (£700 Billion debt inherited from Blair/Brown, 1.5 Trillion after 5 years, doubled). Education, the NHS, railways, etc, all declined in that period. Massive increase in the homeless, children living in B&Bs, etc. The country was heading down the toilet.

Brexit just makes it worse.
Potentially, very much worse. I fear that if a hard Bexit takes place, the 2010-2015 period may be seen as the last of the good times.

I could be wrong, maybe the UK will hit the post-Brexit ground running and charge forward to new economic heights, but if I were a betting man I wouldn't put a penny on that.

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chaggle
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Re: General Election

Post by chaggle » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:34 am

I have had it in my mind since the referendum that there was a chance that Brexit might not actually happen - maybe more wishful thinking than anything.

This last week has reinforced that feeling a little.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

Tony.Williams
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Re: General Election

Post by Tony.Williams » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:42 pm

chaggle wrote:I have had it in my mind since the referendum that there was a chance that Brexit might not actually happen - maybe more wishful thinking than anything.

This last week has reinforced that feeling a little.
That would be the best outcome, I think, especially if the EU modified their "free movement" to mean "free movement to take up jobs".

Everything I have heard about the complexities, costs and other disadvantages involved in Brexit just emphasise what a disaster it is likely to be. If we had been aware of all this before last June I suspect that the vote would have gone differently. Of course, the Brexiteers would just have screamed "Project Fear" even more loudly, but a careful, unemotional analysis by non-politicians might have helped.

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Re: General Election

Post by Tony.Williams » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:18 pm

Tony.Williams wrote: That would be the best outcome, I think, especially if the EU modified their "free movement" to mean "free movement to take up jobs".
The problem is - how to get there from here? All of the political parties (apart from the LibDems and the Greens...) have signed up to implementing Brexit, without including any get-out clauses. It will be a brave Tory or (to a lesser extent) Labour party leader who says "sod this for a game of soldiers" and changes their mind.

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bindeweede
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Re: General Election

Post by bindeweede » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:06 pm

Here's an interesting piece from The Scotsman on the possibility of Sinn Fein MPs taking their seats. (Very unlikely.)

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/could-s ... -1-4475759

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Re: General Election

Post by bindeweede » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:49 pm

Image

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bindeweede
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Re: General Election

Post by bindeweede » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:05 pm

Image

Tony.Williams
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Re: General Election

Post by Tony.Williams » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:37 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-40991615
Up to 1.8 million Scottish votes were "wasted" in June's general election because they had no impact on the result, a study claims.
The Electoral Reform Society found 66.4% of votes did not go towards electing an MP under Westminster's first-past-the-post (FPTP) system.
It said there had been a "sea of wasted votes and a surge in tactical voting".
It added it was time for a proportional system for Westminster elections, similar to the one used at Holyrood.
Under the FPTP system, Labour won 27% of the votes cast in Scotland but got just 12% of the seats, while the SNP won 37% of the votes cast but returned almost 60% of the seats, according to the ERS research.
In its report, the society argued Scotland was "shifting back to multi-party politics".
It pointed out that 21 of the 59 Scottish seats changed party in this year's general election - more in relative terms than any other region or nation in the UK.
But it warned Scotland was at risk of witnessing a "lottery election", with slim victories meaning many seats hinged on just a handful of votes.
It called for Westminster to adopt a more proportional voting system, such as Scotland's Single Transferable Vote (STV) used in local elections.
Electoral Reform Society Scotland director Willie Sullivan, said: "Electors should be able to vote for parties they agree with on the broad sweep of policy, instead of feeling the need to vote tactically based on one significant issue such as independence or Brexit because they fear 'winner takes all' dominance.
"A proportional system would allow for this, create a much broader discussion of politics ensure all votes are of equal value with citizens feeling empowered to take part."
Mr Sullivan also argued there were relatively few "stable waymarks" in the current political landscape.
He said: "Shock changes can take place very quickly and are exaggerated by the electoral system.
"Victories are precarious, and the possibility of another election in the medium term could mean all-change again soon.
"Large swings, often local in effect, show that no party can expect very long in the sun.
"Banff and Buchan where a majority of over 14,000 for the SNP turned into a majority for the Conservative party of 3,600 highlights this."
He added: "Scotland returned four of the UK's top 10 smallest majorities. Those MPs' bottoms rest on very wobbly seats."
:thumb :hat :clap :clap :clap

Matt
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Re: General Election

Post by Matt » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:32 am

Some time in 2010 David Cameron and Nick Clegg sat down to discuss a coalition agreement. Key amongst lib dem demands was a referendum on electoral reform. Somewhere along the line, the two men agreed that the potential voting system to be put forward to the electorate would be AV. That's the only voting system that the Jenkins Report judged as being worse than first past the post.

I'd love to know what went on in that meeting.

Tony.Williams
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Re: General Election

Post by Tony.Williams » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:18 pm

Yep - all part of the Tory stitch-up of the Lib Dems which culminated in the mass assassination in the 2015 election. What an advert for the Tory approach to coalition governments. :fp

Croydon13013
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Re: General Election

Post by Croydon13013 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:29 pm

Tony.Williams wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:18 pm
Yep - all part of the Tory stitch-up of the Lib Dems which culminated in the mass assassination in the 2015 election. What an advert for the Tory approach to coalition governments. :fp
It's certainly true that the Tories put effort into damaging their coalition partners. But what would anyone expect of that shower?

It doesn't absolve the Parliamentary Lib Dem Party. They did it to themselves. And Vince Cable is still defending things that they simply shouldn't have done.
thIS sIGnaTure iS an

Tony.Williams
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Re: General Election

Post by Tony.Williams » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:19 pm

Croydon13013 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:29 pm

It doesn't absolve the Parliamentary Lib Dem Party. They did it to themselves.
Oh, I agree. They were very naive and probably too dazzled by getting into power after almost a century in the wilderness.

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