Politics and gender identity

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Tony.Williams
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Politics and gender identity

Post by Tony.Williams » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:41 pm

Not something I'm a specialist in (and I'm probably wandering into a minefield here) but I'm somewhat baffled by what's going on.

It took decades of argument for women to achieve legal equality with men, after a protracted social debate which eventually came down on the side of women.

It took decades of argument for homosexuality first to become legal, and then to achieve equal rights across the board - again, this was after the public debate had come down in favour.

Now there is suddenly a whole rash of new demands covering every variety of sexual identity (IIRC someone recently worked out that there were 59 possible permutations - more variety than Heinz!). The basic principle seems to be that people can become whatever they decide to call themselves. So someone can be physically entirely male yet choose to identify as a woman, and vice versa. There has never been any public debate about this that I have noticed, let alone any changes in the law, yet this issue already seems to be widely conceded, with men identifying as women being allowed into female changing rooms and other facilities, and male nurses turning up in gynaecological wards to attend to women who have specifically requested a female nurse. Feminist organisations have been protesting vigorously about this, but don't seem to be getting anywhere.

Why are such developments happening despite the lack of any significant public debate about what's acceptable in this area and what isn't? Is it that organisations have become terrified of well-organised internet campaigns by minority groups, or what? :con

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chaggle
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Re: Politics and gender identity

Post by chaggle » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:32 pm

Difficult to know how we've arrived at this point.

It's obviously not acceptable to many that any man who chooses has access to places where women quite naturally want some privacy so why would anyone consider that it's OK?

It's almost certainly not what anyone intended - an example of the law of unforeseen consequences maybe?

The phenomenon of people transitioning from one gender to another is still quite new and we don't know how to deal with it. The problem is that we have difficulty defining when a person transitioning has done so - so we simply allow them to choose for themselves.

This is a) open to abuse and b) will cause distress in some who might well be otherwise sympathetic to the needs of transitioners.

Don't know the answers.

Incidentally I was in a restaurant the other day which had unisex loos.

Bit of a disorganised brain dump concerning a subject of which I have little knowledge. :con
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

Tony.Williams
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Re: Politics and gender identity

Post by Tony.Williams » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:59 pm

chaggle wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:32 pm

The phenomenon of people transitioning from one gender to another is still quite new and we don't know how to deal with it. The problem is that we have difficulty defining when a person transitioning has done so - so we simply allow them to choose for themselves.
That's the core of the problem, as I understand it, but there seems to be a great deal of complexity within that.

The simplest way of addressing the issues might be to have three categories: "Definitely Male"; "Definitely Female"; and "Whatever".
Incidentally I was in a restaurant the other day which had unisex loos.
I had to laugh at one place I read about, which had relabelled their loos:

Gender-Neutral Toilets With Cubicles

Gender-Neutral Toilets Including Urinals.

That may be one way of seeming to be "right on" without any cost involved. :???:

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