sexual harassment

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Tony.Williams
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sexual harassment

Post by Tony.Williams » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:35 am

This is an intriguing development which seems to be getting close to a kind of mob hysteria, with "mea culpa" confessions being all the rage. A sense of proportion is notably missing, although some people have tried (e.g. an article by a female columnist headed something like "A clumsy pass over dinner does not constitute sexual harassment". Also missing is any recognition that times change, society evolves, and behaviour which was once considered acceptable is no longer so; present-day standards are applied to historic events.

Looking at the wider picture, this seems to be a prime example of the impact of social media, without which it seems unlikely that such a storm would have brewed. But SM is a bull charging around a china shop, often trampling over basic rights, as in the case of those men who have been summarily dismissed from their jobs despite denying the accusations levelled against them, without even being given a hearing. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

It's hard to predict just how much society will change as a result of the new SM environment, but it is far from obvious that it's a Good Thing.

Croydon13013
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Re: sexual harassment

Post by Croydon13013 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:06 pm

I'm not saying that your concerns are wrong. But...

You seem to be worried about the wrong thing. The primary issue here is long-standing systematic abuse of women. Including rape and all sorts of very serious crimes. This isn't about a "clumsy pass", this is about the abuse of power. It isn't a clumsy pass when one of the two people is the boss of the other, or has the potential to make a life-changing improvement to their situation. Allegations regarding Parliament include that a Tory MP was routinely sleeping with his assistants; that it was part of the job to have to shag him if you wanted him to give you a foot-in-the-door to a political career. This was never acceptable. Hollywood allegations including drugging and rape. This was never acceptable.

Exposure of these crimes and a shift in social attitudes regarding them is a Good Thing.
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chaggle
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Re: sexual harassment

Post by chaggle » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:20 pm

It's a complex and multi-faceted issue.

Julia Hartley Brewer has just been speaking about how astonished she is that the knee touching incident at a dinner with Fallon a few years ago - in which she basically told him to fuck off when he was being persistently flirtatious - has suddenly been thrust into the headlines.

This trivialises a serious issue which as Bob says is often about power - she says that, if anything, she was in the position of power at that incident so it's different.
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Tony.Williams
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Re: sexual harassment

Post by Tony.Williams » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:51 am

I have every sympathy with women who have been sexually abused, especially by men in a position of power over them (or indeed, with the gender roles reversed), and fully support calling the abusers to account. My specific point was that offences ranging from the serious to the trivial seem to be treated the same.

However, the general point I was trying to make wasn't about sexual harassment - that was just the current example - it was about the role of social media in whipping up a frenzied shitstorm, and the difference this is making to justice and society.

Croydon13013
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Re: sexual harassment

Post by Croydon13013 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:02 pm

Tony.Williams wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:51 am
However, the general point I was trying to make wasn't about sexual harassment
Perhaps you shouldn't have called the thread "sexual harassment"?
Tony.Williams wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:51 am
My specific point was that offences ranging from the serious to the trivial seem to be treated the same.
The Tory Party and their media chums have a vested interest in doing this.
chaggle wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:20 pm
Julia Hartley Brewer has just been speaking about how astonished she is that the knee touching incident at a dinner with Fallon a few years ago - in which she basically told him to fuck off when he was being persistently flirtatious - has suddenly been thrust into the headlines.

This trivialises a serious issue which as Bob says is often about power - she says that, if anything, she was in the position of power at that incident so it's different.
Yes. There are accusations of serious, criminal, abuse of power including rape and Fallon's facile contribution to the debate is to "confess" that he once touched Hartley Brewer's knee. This is part of a deliberate attempt to confuse the issue, to confabulate the trivial with the most appalling abuse of power.

They are also trying to point at the Labour Party. Now, I don't doubt that there have been some serious crimes committed by senior Labour people over the years, including sex-related crimes. But at the moment we have 36+ Tory MPs accused of behaviour up to offences that carry life sentences. One Labour MP accused of offensive tweets and sexist language for which he was immediately suspended. The Conservatives are in a whole different league of disgusting behaviour. It has been tolerated within Tory circles in a way that would be impossible in the Labour Party.
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chaggle
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Re: sexual harassment

Post by chaggle » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:49 pm

Image
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Tony.Williams
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Re: sexual harassment

Post by Tony.Williams » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:14 am

Now here's a novel take on sexual assault: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41854358

US Energy Secretary Rick Perry (a climate change denier) has said an increase in the use of fossil fuels in Africa may prevent sexual assault. Speaking in Washington, he said: "From the standpoint of sexual assault. When the lights are on, when you have light that shines, the righteousness, if you will, on those types of acts. So from the standpoint of how you really affect people's lives, fossil fuels is [sic] going to play a role in that", he added.

:shock: :???: :fp :gh

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chaggle
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Re: sexual harassment

Post by chaggle » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:26 am

:fp indeed!!

Mind you there could be something in it. Didn't the birth rate shoot right up after the power cuts in the early '70s?
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Tony.Williams
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Re: sexual harassment

Post by Tony.Williams » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:37 am

chaggle wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:26 am
:fp indeed!!

Mind you there could be something in it. Didn't the birth rate shoot right up after the power cuts in the early '70s?
Yep - and the same thing happens in countries which have just won the World Cup, or similar (with, I presume, a lot of the male babies being named after team members...).

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