Faith healing...

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chaggle
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Faith healing...

Post by chaggle »

... will be discussed on The Big Questions in a minute.

Hayley Stevens is there - If I remember rightly she was the one who complained to the ASA about a group in Bath who reckoned they could heal people by praying for them.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con
chaggle
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by chaggle »

Watched it until I was in danger of wrecking my laptop in frustration (which is normal with that program).

It seemed very one-sided - lots of believers and only Hayley and the chap alongside her offering a skeptical view.

One thing that wasn't mentioned (unless it was after I switched off) is that intercessory prayer has been tested and found to be useless. I'm sure the believers would have had some excuse for that but the point should have been made.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con
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Ketchup
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by Ketchup »

Missed it. :( Pity, I would like to have seen that. Might become available on BBC iPlayer? If so, would anyone object to posting it up here - for a [possibly] interesting discussion?
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bindeweede
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by bindeweede »

Hayley has posted her comments together with a link to the appropriate Youtube clips.

http://hayleyisaghost.co.uk/thebigq/
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Ketchup
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by Ketchup »

Thanks, Bindeweede. I watched it through that link - and can see that nothing much was missed by not seeing it in the first place.

I stopped watching The Big Questions for the same reason as Chaggle has mentioned - frustration, though my frustration arises from the fact that in a short half-hour slot, no matter what the question under discussion might be, the programme does not allow scope for any kind of deep questioning debate, conclusion or follow-up. Individuals simply state their hurried opinion on a subject and then it cuts to another person to do the same. The only 'questioning' on that stated opinion is done briefly and abruptly by the presenter and then cut to another person to make their statement in the same way. No discussion, no debate as such - just people making their own personal views public.

The 'one-sided' issue that Chaggle suggests, may well reflect the overall general public opinion - or it could well be the fault of the programme makers (in not spreading the net widely enough to include people with opposing perspectives on The Question that is the subject of the programme).
On the whole, most of these questions consist of a whole lot more than just two sides anyway, and with the limited time available I suppose it's just not possible to draw on the whole range of differing perspectives that ought to be included.

You have to ask, what is the point of that programme? It doesn't solve anything. It doesn't in any way get people thinking in depth about the issue, or even leeway to perhaps change their way of thinking about it, something to mull over.

Yep! Frustrated!
~ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday ~
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bindeweede
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by bindeweede »

I have never seen this programme before. I only watched the "Prayer" bit, but the total lack of verifiable evidence presented by the "believers" was hardly surprising. Very badly hosted and, to put it mildly, one-sided. Less mildly......I was going to use some shorter words, but I'll go with "dismissable". :y
chaggle
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by chaggle »

bindeweede wrote:I have never seen this programme before. I only watched the "Prayer" bit, but the total lack of verifiable evidence presented by the "believers" was hardly surprising. Very badly hosted and, to put it mildly, one-sided. Less mildly......I was going to use some shorter words, but I'll go with "dismissable".
Amazed you haven't watched it before Binders, it's a good way to raise your blood pressure on a Sunday morning. Mrs. C always has to tell me to stop frightening the dogs and put down the zapper at some point before I'll launch it at the screen.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con
chaggle
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by chaggle »

Ketchup wrote:Thanks, Bindeweede. I watched it through that link - and can see that nothing much was missed by not seeing it in the first place.

I stopped watching The Big Questions for the same reason as Chaggle has mentioned - frustration, though my frustration arises from the fact that in a short half-hour slot, no matter what the question under discussion might be, the programme does not allow scope for any kind of deep questioning debate, conclusion or follow-up. Individuals simply state their hurried opinion on a subject and then it cuts to another person to do the same. The only 'questioning' on that stated opinion is done briefly and abruptly by the presenter and then cut to another person to make their statement in the same way. No discussion, no debate as such - just people making their own personal views public.

The 'one-sided' issue that Chaggle suggests, may well reflect the overall general public opinion - or it could well be the fault of the programme makers (in not spreading the net widely enough to include people with opposing perspectives on The Question that is the subject of the programme).
On the whole, most of these questions consist of a whole lot more than just two sides anyway, and with the limited time available I suppose it's just not possible to draw on the whole range of differing perspectives that ought to be included.

You have to ask, what is the point of that programme? It doesn't solve anything. It doesn't in any way get people thinking in depth about the issue, or even leeway to perhaps change their way of thinking about it, something to mull over.

Yep! Frustrated!
Agree wholeheartedly with this.

Just too superficial to be of any real use.

A example - there was a chap sitting at the front (I think he might have been some sort of priest) who reckoned he had prayed for ten people, two of whom had got better and he saw this as a pretty good result.

This bland anecdote raises a host of issues, none of which were addressed on the programme. One obvious question would be - what makes him think that his prayers helped the two who got better? Isn't it just as likely that they hindered the eight people who didn't? I would love to ask him that one.

That the subject of the many RCTs that have been conducted on this issue wasn't addressed was a serious omission.

Similarly the point Hayley made about the possible dangers of this was hardly discussed at all. It should have been pointed out that people have died through this and parents are in prison in America for praying over their children rather than getting them proper medical attention.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con
panama
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by panama »

chaggle wrote:
bindeweede wrote:I have never seen this programme before. I only watched the "Prayer" bit, but the total lack of verifiable evidence presented by the "believers" was hardly surprising. Very badly hosted and, to put it mildly, one-sided. Less mildly......I was going to use some shorter words, but I'll go with "dismissable". :T
Amazed you haven't watched it before Binders, it's a good way to raise your blood pressure on a Sunday morning. Mrs. C always has to tell me to stop frightening the dogs and put down the zapper at some point before I'll launch it at the screen.
I couldn't watch more than a few minutes...I don't need my blood pressure raised. Sunday morning will remain lying in bed listening to Radios 4 & 6 while swearing at the newspapers.
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by Tony Williams »

chaggle wrote:
A example - there was a chap sitting at the front (I think he might have been some sort of priest) who reckoned he had prayed for ten people, two of whom had got better and he saw this as a pretty good result.

This bland anecdote raises a host of issues, none of which were addressed on the programme. One obvious question would be - what makes him think that his prayers helped the two who got better? Isn't it just as likely that they hindered the eight people who didn't? I would love to ask him that one.
Perhaps more to the point is the fact carefully overlooked by such people - that the human body has some pretty good repair mechanisms which mean that most people, suffering from most ailments, get better all by themselves if they're left alone. Doesn't work with really serious illnesses, of course, but it works a lot better than prayer. :roll:
chaggle
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by chaggle »

Tony Williams wrote:
chaggle wrote:
A example - there was a chap sitting at the front (I think he might have been some sort of priest) who reckoned he had prayed for ten people, two of whom had got better and he saw this as a pretty good result.

This bland anecdote raises a host of issues, none of which were addressed on the programme. One obvious question would be - what makes him think that his prayers helped the two who got better? Isn't it just as likely that they hindered the eight people who didn't? I would love to ask him that one.
Perhaps more to the point is the fact carefully overlooked by such people - that the human body has some pretty good repair mechanisms which mean that most people, suffering from most ailments, get better all by themselves if they're left alone. Doesn't work with really serious illnesses, of course, but it works a lot better than prayer. :roll:
Yes - lots of flaws, unasked/answered question etc. - too many to list. Perhaps someone should ask the assembled woodom if they understand the point of RCTs.

Anyone catch this Sunday's? The interesting question was about faith in science and Evan Harris was a guest and apparently a homeopath made a tit of himself. I would have liked to have seen it.
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bindeweede
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Re: Faith healing...

Post by bindeweede »

I couldn't watch it where I was. Found it on iPlayer. "Should we have more faith in Science" start 40 minutes in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... pisode_14/
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