The gender wage cap

Post Reply
User avatar
chaggle
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:01 am

The gender wage cap

Post by chaggle » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:29 am

Big in the news as last night was the deadline for large companies to report upon their average wages per gender.

Am I the only one who is entirely unconvinced that there is anything necessarily sinister about this gap?

There are potentially many reasons for this difference from the obviously wrong...
I'm simply going to pay women less because I can and I don't like women anyway
through the debatable...
many women tend to earn less because they take time out to have children and naturally therefore fall behind
to the arguably admirable...
many women don't want to waste their lives doing all-consuming stressful jobs because there are better things to do with your time
Aside from the first of those which is against the law is there actually a problem to be solved? What to we do about it - somehow cajole women into doing jobs they don't want to do?
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

Croydon13013
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:48 pm

Re: The gender wage cap

Post by Croydon13013 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:46 am

chaggle wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:29 am
Am I the only one who is entirely unconvinced that there is anything necessarily sinister about this gap?
It isn't necessarily sinister. You've identified various reasons that are all going to apply sometimes. And the process of looking at headline salaries without considering task/grade issues isn't very useful.

Ryanair are whining that the gap is because the men are pilots and the women are trollies-dollies; so that explains everything satisfactorily as far as they are concerned.

I think that this is a real issue that still needs work to sort out. But it is far more complex than just the numbers produced yesterday. For instance, Maternity Leave: This not only leaves women behind men on pensions and total salary over a lifetime (in total, assuming more than minimum statutory leave is taken), but also probably damages promotion prospects, job retention prospects, etc. Do we, as a society, let that situation remain? After all, they chose to have children. Or should we be stacking the deck to balance chances for women who have children? If so, how?
thIS sIGnaTure iS an

Tony.Williams
Posts: 792
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:05 am
Location: Still somewhere in England
Contact:

Re: The gender wage cap

Post by Tony.Williams » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:01 pm

Croydon13013 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:46 am
I think that this is a real issue that still needs work to sort out. But it is far more complex than just the numbers produced yesterday. For instance, Maternity Leave: This not only leaves women behind men on pensions and total salary over a lifetime (in total, assuming more than minimum statutory leave is taken), but also probably damages promotion prospects, job retention prospects, etc. Do we, as a society, let that situation remain? After all, they chose to have children. Or should we be stacking the deck to balance chances for women who have children? If so, how?
The obvious approach to these problems is to provide free childcare throughout the working day so that mothers are freed to go out to do full-time jobs, competitive with the men. The problem is that this is expensive. But the consequence of not encouraging motherhood is that the birth rate drops steadily below the death rate so you have a shrinking and ageing population with ever fewer workers supporting ever more pensioners - a problem throughout the first world. An alternative approach, which the UK has been assiduously following in recent decades, is to import young workers from abroad, who then also produce more children. Oops, not supposed to mention the advantages of that... :gmc

User avatar
chaggle
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:01 am

Re: The gender wage cap

Post by chaggle » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:53 pm

Croydon13013 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:46 am
chaggle wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:29 am
Am I the only one who is entirely unconvinced that there is anything necessarily sinister about this gap?
It isn't necessarily sinister. You've identified various reasons that are all going to apply sometimes. And the process of looking at headline salaries without considering task/grade issues isn't very useful.

Ryanair are whining that the gap is because the men are pilots and the women are trollies-dollies; so that explains everything satisfactorily as far as they are concerned.

I think that this is a real issue that still needs work to sort out. But it is far more complex than just the numbers produced yesterday. For instance, Maternity Leave: This not only leaves women behind men on pensions and total salary over a lifetime (in total, assuming more than minimum statutory leave is taken), but also probably damages promotion prospects, job retention prospects, etc. Do we, as a society, let that situation remain? After all, they chose to have children. Or should we be stacking the deck to balance chances for women who have children? If so, how?
Yes - complex.

The 'Ryanair' 'problem' is true of many companies including the one I worked for. Is it the companies' 'problem' to solve? Depends on why it's happening.

The problem I have with all of this is that everybody says that the gender wage gap is a 'problem' and we must 'fix it' but I'm not at all sure that it is a problem (bar the obvious illegal discrimination in the workplace). If there is a problem(s) then the first thing to do is identify what the problem(s) is - is this actually happening?

Lots of noise is made but :con
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

Matt
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:50 pm

Re: The gender wage cap

Post by Matt » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:57 pm

The problem appears to be exacerbated by the average salaries being heavily skewed by the huge remuneration packages at the board levels where women are particularly poorly represented. The argument put forward is that whilst progress has been made over the past decade or so in levelling the playing fields the effects of such changes have not had time to impact at so much at board level dues to the average age of people in such senior positions.

Of course the income inequality that leads to the averages being so heavily skewed by the few at the top is another issue.

I was amused by Pie's take on it all...

(To switch to full screen, click the Full screen icon in the bottom corner of the video player.

To exit out of full screen, press Esc on your keyboard or click the Full screen icon again.)

Of course hearing the many arguments surrounding the issue they do sound convincing, but at the same time many of the arguments ring a bell and I'm put in mind of the denialist deck of cards.

https://www.denialism.com/the-denialists-deck-of-cards/

I'm reserving judgement for the time being. Can it really be entirely pointless to collect and publish these figures?

Post Reply