Brexit consequences

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bindeweede
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:11 pm

I stumbled across another opinion piece from Mitchell A. Orenstein, professor and chairman of Russian and East European politics at University of Pennsylvania and a senior fellow with the Foreign Policy Research Institute.
The British government now realizes that it is under attack by Russia. But it has yet to admit, or seriously investigate, Russia’s role in the Brexit campaign that has plunged the United Kingdom into uncertainty and turmoil. Many Brits recognize that the Brexit campaign was built on lies, that Brexit is undesirable, and that Russia may have been involved in funding and publicizing it through social media bots and trolls. At the same time, most Brits prefer to keep a stiff upper lip and carry on, worrying that overturning Brexit may lead to greater disruption and hollowing out of the democratic process.
An interesting read but the whole Brexit situation is getting so complex......

http://thehill.com/opinion/internationa ... is-handled

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polomint38
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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by polomint38 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:13 pm

Tony.Williams wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:17 am

For how long can the politicians plough on regardless with Brexit, waffling about general principles and blithely ignoring the massive practical headaches which are gradually being revealed?
How long is a piece of string. :ey

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:51 am

I see that the Telegraph leads on the most vital Brexit issue yet - that the "blue passports" may well be made "in Europe".

Apart from the fact that, EU or not, we are actually in Europe and will stay there (I don't think that even the most ardent Brexiters have argued we should use our big new aircraft carriers to tow the British Isles into the middle of the Atlantic), this just shows how obsessed they are with symbolism rather than practical reality.

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:13 am

Yesterday Farage was on the Thames throwing dead fish overboard.

This old video has been doing the rounds again - of Guy Verhofstadt haranguing him for complete absence from the fisheries committee of which he was a member.

(To switch to full screen, click the Full screen icon in the bottom corner of the video player.

To exit out of full screen, press Esc on your keyboard or click the Full screen icon again.)

I'll say one thing for Farage - he has the most eminently punchable face.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:34 am

Another tale indicating some of the complexities and problems involved in separating from the EU, this time concerning products made using elements from other countries - both within and outside the EU: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43516496

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:26 am

Here's a useful list of common phrases in the Brexit debate: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43470987

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:36 pm

It's a week or so old, but the PM's idea could catch on.

Theresa May suggests some form of formal unified group of European countries to oppose Russia.
“Rather than each of us coming up with measures against them as individual countries, if we came together as one with a single coherent strategy in concord with one another, it would send a powerful message that Putin’s actions will not be tolerated.”

Mrs May went on to suggest that the group could start out as primarily a defence-based alliance, but if there were opportunities to work more closely together economically, then where would be the harm in that?

“It’s a radical idea, but I really think that I’m on to something here,” said the Prime Minister

“We could call it ‘Unified Europe’ and base it in one of the low countries.

Mrs May went on to explain how she would seek to implement her original new vision, she explained that the first priority would be a strong Brexit deal.

“Once we’ve got that sorted out, then we can move on with the creation of ‘Unified Europe’.

“I suppose the sensible thing to do first is some sort of referendum…”
http://newsthump.com/2018/03/23/theresa ... se-russia/

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:17 am

Hardly a surprise - from the BBC News paper review:
The Telegraph says it has learnt that the EU has comprehensively rejected British plans for avoiding a hard Irish border, in a move that casts serious doubt on the UK's ability to leave the customs union.

It quotes senior EU diplomatic sources as saying Theresa May's proposals were subjected to a "systematic and forensic annihilation" at a meeting between senior EU and British officials this week.

The source tells the paper: "It was made clear that none of the UK's customs options will work. None of them."

The paper says British negotiators were fully aware of EU scepticism, but the complete inflexibility of the European Commission and EU member states is understood to have left them shocked.
This can has been despairingly kicked down the road for months now....and we're running out of road.

I can see the whole concept of a negotiated Brexit falling into chaos if some "solution" isn't found - but I haven't a clue what that might be.

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:07 pm

There's an obvious solution staring this hopeless Government in the face, but it lacks the cojones. :devil

(My one and only post while on hols!!)

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:47 am

When you are back from your holiday (which I hope you enjoy) would you tell us what this solution is?

Coz I have no idea how we extract ourselves from this mess. :con
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by bindeweede » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:37 pm

Well, as I'm here......as far as I know, May has failed to identify a single tangible benefit of the UK leaving the EU. The referendum, as voted for by Parliament, was not legally binding, and was advisory. Best thing to do is abandon the whole abysmally bad idea, and work on improving the UK's relationship with Europe and its world standing, rather than becoming an increasingly insignificant group of islands off the north west coast of Europe with diminishing credibility and relevance on the world stage.

Just my 2pworth.

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:55 am

If the EU continues to back the Republic of Ireland and refuses to consider any hard border which would destroy the Good Friday agreement, while insisting on such a border between the EU and states outside it, the options are limited. The government will basically have to decide between two options it has already rejected: remaining in a customs union, or a hard border down the Irish Sea. The third possibility is to crash out without any agreement at all, which will inevitably lead to a hard border within Ireland as well as having massive consequences for the UK economy.

It is becoming increasingly obvious that leaving the EU will bring far more pain than gain. The opportunities for expanding trade with the rest of the world don't even come close to the losses we would suffer from being out of the EU customs union, and come with costs of their own: India is demanding far more immigration, the USA the repeal of lots of legislation controlling food standards, origin labelling etc.

All in all, the country seems to trapped in a strange, self-destructive psychological state: "yes, we can see it's going to be bad, but we said we'd do it so we mustn't change our minds".

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by Tony.Williams » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:24 am

More on the BBC news website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43835934
No 10 says it is confident a deal can be done to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland after Brexit despite signs of an impasse over the issue.

The BBC understands UK plans to resolve the matter faced sustained criticism from the EU at a meeting on Wednesday. The UK wants to use technology to help goods flow freely and avoid regulatory alignment between the North and South.

Downing Street said it did not recognise reports it had been told none of its proposed ideas would work.

The EU wants to present an agreed solution on the issue to a summit meeting of European leaders in June. Chief negotiator Michel Barnier told French TV on Friday that 25% of the final withdrawal deal had still to be settled and it could still be derailed by disagreements over the border and other issues.

Britain is due to leave the European Union on 29 March 2019. December's first-phase agreement - officially known as the Joint Report - contains the "backstop" option of continued regulatory alignment between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in many areas. The UK is strongly resisting this, as it believes this will effectively see Northern Ireland remain in the EU's customs union, which Theresa May is committed to leaving. The UK hopes to avoid this outcome either by agreeing a very close economic partnership with the EU, which it believes would make physical checks on the Irish border unnecessary, or the use of technology to keep goods flowing freely as they do now.
Well, we already have "a very close economic partnership with the EU", and we even have a say in what the rules and regulations should be. :roll:

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:15 am

bindeweede wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:37 pm
Well, as I'm here......as far as I know, May has failed to identify a single tangible benefit of the UK leaving the EU. The referendum, as voted for by Parliament, was not legally binding, and was advisory. Best thing to do is abandon the whole abysmally bad idea, and work on improving the UK's relationship with Europe and its world standing, rather than becoming an increasingly insignificant group of islands off the north west coast of Europe with diminishing credibility and relevance on the world stage.

Just my 2pworth.
But what might the consequences of abandoning be?

If the attitude displayed by leavers on other forums is anything to go by they would be extremely pissed off.

However they might just be blustering - maybe they would be secretly relieved?
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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Re: Brexit consequences

Post by chaggle » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:23 am

Tony.Williams wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:55 am

...
All in all, the country seems to trapped in a strange, self-destructive psychological state: "yes, we can see it's going to be bad, but we said we'd do it so we mustn't change our minds".
Yes - that's what I'm hearing - the turkeys have voted for Christmas so let's all head for the abattoir.

But also, leavers are pointing out that as NONE of the project fear predictions have materialised everything's going to be OK.
Don't blame me - I voted remain :con

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